Shel Wagner is an artist from Yukon, Oklahoma. The following is an interview with her.
Grant: "Perhaps we should start out by discussing your time with Discover Oklahoma. What were you exactly?"
Shel: "I was executive producer and segment host."
G: "What was it like, reflecting upon it after establishing yourself as an artist?"
S: "That job was perfectly suited for me, because I have a real passion for where I’m from. When I lived in Los Angeles for 18 years I spent a lot of time defending Oklahoma. A lot of what people knew in general, was Grapes of Wrath and that we were Okies, low class, desperate poor people. So I spent a lot of time defending and educating people there about what Oklahoma was about. When I moved back and got the Discover Oklahoma job what was surprising to me is how I had to sort of keep defending Oklahoma, to Oklahomans. As a state we seem to have a low self-esteem about our ourselves; we’re kind of apologetic about being from Oklahoma, and what was so fun for me is to discover things that were uniquely ours and things that we were really proud of. […] I really felt like we were moving the needle as far as helping people be proud of being here. […] I think my biggest lesson was meeting people every week who had made their dream come true. […] I met people who started bed and breakfasts who had never stayed in one; without even the minimal research, you know? People here are bold, risk-taking, and I met quite a few artists. I grew up not knowing you could be an artist for real. […] I feel like no one really needs stuff that’s glued together, no one really needs art on their walls; but you know, I do! The whole goal is to make something that make people laugh or remember something or make somebody happy-- so, anyway, blah blah blah. Discover Oklahoma taught me that if you can dream it, in Oklahoma you can probably make it work."
“I had to sort of keep defending Oklahoma, to Oklahomans.”
G: "Do you feel like working on Discover Oklahoma influenced your art later on?"
S: "[…] I think [Discover Oklahoma] influences my art because it showed me how to look for the beauty in places, which is what I try to highlight in the art. Like in the Yukon show I did two motel signs on Route 66, two motels which the signs aren’t there anymore, which really makes me sad. It goes with my Discover Oklahoma job in that I feel like if you teach people to appreciate things then I feel like they’ll be more interested in preserving them. […] But the people who own them don’t realize that those were the reason people would have stayed there if they were travelling down Route 66; now [the signs] are just some fluorescent box and they don’t realize how much they lost. […] So in a way I’m still trying to make people proud of where they’re from, even with my artwork. One of my pieces is The Popsicle Man. When I was growing up we didn’t have an ice cream man. We had a popsicle man, and he drove a Nash Metropolitan which was an itty-bitty two-tone car. He had a bell on top with a string and an ice chest that was in the passenger seat full of popsicles. What I didn’t realize was when I was an adult Kurt [Shel’s husband] and I went to a car show years later, and there was a Nash Metropolitan there; I was like “Oh my god it’s the popsicle man car!” […] and I realized not everyone had a popsicle man who drove a Nash Metropolitan. That was one of those unique moments of which there are many, and you don’t realize that they’re special until either you move, or years later you grow up and realize that was a really cool thing.[…]”
“Oh my god it’s the popsicle man car!”
“One of my other pieces is called The Family Thread, which is about the things you inherit from your relatives, from your ancestors, and she’s blue as it’s sort of my comment on inheriting depression and mental illness which runs on both sides of my family. Breast cancer is also very common in our family, so I feel that we get them checked so much that they’re like pincushions, which is why her breasts are pincushions. You also inherit your family members sewing boxes, which is where all of that thread came from actually."
G: “It was?”
S: “I mean, it was Kurt’s mom’s thread, and a friend of my moms who moved and gave me all of her thread. So it’s quite literally made of family thread. Most of my pieces, like Family Thread looks cheerful, so I’ve actually began making write-ups about the pieces to show the complexity that lies behind the glue. I want people to feel joyous, maybe even nostalgic when they look at my art but it also has meaning behind it, at least for me.”
“I want people to feel joyous […] but [my art] also has meaning behind it”
G: “I think that’s very good that you make little explanation sheets. Your art is very accessible in terms of the sort of art people can appreciate, so the people who come may not be accustomed to seeing beyond the façade of the artwork.
S: “It’s funny you say that, because especially with this last show I invited old teachers, my mom’s bridge club, cousins, people who haven’t necessarily spent a lot of time at an art show. Even the other shows, I’ve had sorority sisters and people who haven’t spent much time in the art world, and I’m not judging because I’m fairly new to this too. They don’t really know that you’re not supposed to touch, and my work is fairly textural so it’s tempting to touch. In the show I have a piece called Bridge Fridge; it’s a Little Tykes ladder I picked out of a big trash day in my parents’ neighborhood and I made it into a refrigerator. It has a freezer door at the top like old school refrigerators used to have, and people all evening would keep trying to open that damn freezer door! I’m like a) why are you touching it and b) it doesn’t open! Just don’t touch it! I guess I’m glad that it seems accessible enough that people want touch, but it’s been a really funny experience for me. For a lot of people, it was their first art show and I guess I feel proud that I introduced that to people. They may never go to another art show again.”
“I’m like a) why are you touching it and b) it doesn’t open!”
G: “But they say yours.”
S: “They saw mine. What Bridge Fridge is about is when I was growing up my mom was in this bridge club with other women in Yukon. She was one of the original members and they’re still doing it every other Wednesday night. More than fifty years, and some of the women have changed out but there’s still three or four original members. When it was my mom’s turn to host our fridge would fill up with all of these beautiful foods, desserts, and cheese covered things with a note that said “do NOT eat—for bridge” which I have hanging in Bridge Fridge too. That’s what I was about, just that memory when my brothers and I would just open the fridge door and stare with a little envy. In fact, I was really passionate about the pieces for the Yukon show because of that long history there for me, and I was hoping I could create things that were special to people who came. Like the platter of kolaches, the plater is actually a satellite dish.
G: “Why do you think you use the medium that you use?”
S: “Great question. I grew up with parents who were depression era, you know, and grew up very much with this attitude of making do. I would go to the dump with my dad on weekends, and it was the best because we usually ended up bringing more stuff home than we took. My dad would just see something that he knew he could fix, and it was just the most fun! I sort of grew up maybe with the benefit of seeing the value of the things we throw away; I don’t know if it’s a gift or a curse because then you usually become a hoarder. So I can see a plastic peanut butter jar lid, or whatever, and I see it for the color that it is and the form that it is, not just something to be thrown away. I think it’s a bit environmentally friendly, even a statement, sort of elevating the status of the things people throw away and turning it into art supplies. I also, having chosen to live here in Kingfisher, I really wanted to use materials that were accessible, where I didn’t have to travel looking around. Don’t have to go to Hobby Lobby ever! Then I could get everything I needed at Little Bit of Everything, Walmart, you know what I mean? I can get my polyurethane and all of my frames are salvaged and repurposed.”
“I sort of grew up maybe with the benefit of seeing the value of the things we throw away […]”
G: “What I’m seeing is that you seem to be taking literal bits and pieces of Oklahoma and creating cultural icons”
S: “I like that! I need to quote you or something, you know? Grant Westfahl says... I love that description of it.
G: “I bet you have a lot of fun stories, so if you could pick a moment, what moment in your life do you think defines you as an artist and as a character?
S: “As an artist, for the first time being about to print up a business card and open up a show in the Paseo, for a solo show. The show started at 6:30, and by 7:00 I had sold half of everything I had bought. And people were fighting over things! Three people wanted one piece and somebody had already paid for it, and some people where offering them more money for it. They were like “I’ll pay more!” and that’s not really how it works, you know what I mean? It was the first moment I thought, woah what? People would pay money for this stuff? And quite a bit of money? And it was really eye opening, and the first moment I thought that maybe it would work out, me being an artist.”
G: “Now that your past that, are you happy with it? The sort of workflow of being an artist?”
“Gallery owners would come in and say “what in the world” you know?”
S: “Now looking back at that, I realized that was a really unique situation. Stillwater was not that way at all, I sold a tiny bit of merchandise there, a few greeting cards too. The Yukon show hasn’t sold any pieces yet. I sold t-shirts and prints. When that happened at the Paseo, gallery owners would come in and the show had to be up for the whole month but everything had a sold sign on it? Gallery owners would come in and say “what in the world” you know? That was really unusually, and I thought what? That was really easy-peasy! It’s been eye opening since that it’s not that easy. I mean I’ve made a website since and start trying to do more of the business of being an artist. I was a fellow in the Artist Inc. program, which is sort of learning marketing and accounting, legal stuff and what not. It’s not fun stuff, I’m not mathy and it’s why I do this stuff. I just hope someday that maybe it can pay for itself, you know? I did sell enough t-shirts to buy more t-shirts, but if I had to order more t-shirts and pay a mortgage? But I just feel that there’s some way it can be profitable. Mary Englebreit did it with cards and prints, mugs, whatever!
G: “Do you get any business from outside of Oklahoma?”
“[…] the reason I left Discover Oklahoma is that it’s not that fun to be on TV […]”
S: “I do have some commission requests that I’m hoping to start before I get full into the Stockyard City show. There’s a lady in New York who wants me to do… a camel? And one in Minneapolis who wants me to do something along the lines of TV Dinner maybe? So there are those sort of guaranteed income projects going on. […] One thing I didn’t count on either, Grant, is that the reason I left Discover Oklahoma is that it’s not that fun to be on TV, you know? I’m not that personality on TV. […] I became an artist so I wouldn’t have to be on TV! But I mean shows [and radio broadcasts] had me on. […] In the Stillwater show there were a lot of art students who stood in line and would ask me how I got my art career started and I just felt like such a poser! Ummmmm, I was going to ask you the same thing! I don’t have a visual arts degree! I have a master of arts, but it’s in film making. I don’t know how to answer that!
“Ummmmm, I was going to ask you the same thing! I don’t have a visual arts degree! I have a master of arts, but it’s in film making[!]”
G: “I guess that’s when you tell them to change their major, become a film maker and then go into visual arts!”
S: “Do a TV Show then transition to being an artist! I guess if there’s any lesson it’s that there’s not a real path, it’s really just to do what’s right for them.
G: “So have anyone critiqued you yet?”
S: “I guess the closest thing to a critique I’ve had is the article for the Paseo show. She interviewed me, but she also talked about the pieces. Said what she thought. And maybe that first show, things didn’t have a deep meaning for me? They were more so representative of the places I love in Oklahoma. […] I think as the shows have gone on the pieces have taken on more meaning for me. At first it was just a shallow meaning of “hey, everyone gets to be themselves!” and that’s cool. And then the next show is “hey, if places in Oklahoma were people, I think this is what they would look like!” [The Stillwater show] got a little more… activist? I that I had one called Same Love which is a celebration of marriage equality. I had a big polar bear holding a globe of warm colors that was about global warming and the polar bears’ plight, which people really didn’t get! Several people thought it was a dog, and why’s the dog holding a globe? I tried to be a little deeper, so I think with each show the pieces have a little more depth. So Stillwater had a few statements.
G: “Do you feel like you’re down this path where you do artwork less so for the sake of art as for not so much the political stuff but the appreciation of the aesthetic of Oklahoma culture?”
“I feel like if [I] present [political art] in a joyful, not combative way, that that is my best chance at evoking change in the right direction.”
S: “I think that my work will become more political, or at least a gentle political undertone which will become less and less gentle as we go along. I don’t see myself doing anything very controversial, I mean the Same Love piece could be interpreted as controversial I guess. I feel like if you present it in a joyful, not combative way, that that is my best chance at evoking change in the right direction. My right way.”
G: “Which one is your favorite piece and why?”
S: “When I look back at all the ones I finished… I think the piece that was most difficult to sell was Woodward at Sunset. I don’t know why he felt like a real person to me, but it’s really scary. He was my first effort in sculpting the face myself, maybe that’s why it feels like the first one I sort of gave birth to? Maybe that’s why I cried so hard when I sold him. It felt like one of my kids.”